PvXwiki:Admin noticeboard/Resolved Build-Specific Issues/Archive 20

R/Mo Close Combat Ranger (talk · rate)

Would like some additional opinion regarding whether build is worthy of archival, or it should just be WELL'd. Reasons on archive tag (should my opinion be asked for, I'm leaning towards no archiving for this one). — Rapta (talk|contribs) 21:56, 8 March 2008 (EST)

It wasn't that great to begin with. I don't think it deserves an archive, it was only Other. --GuildofDeals 13:46, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

Unarchived, back in voting. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 17:56, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

W/Me UW Cyclone Solo (talk · rate)

Heavy Yield put a bad rating...because its too effective.-- aesthetic

Humpity Bumpity.-- aesthetic

Resolved. Vote removed. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 14:23, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

A/E AoD Spike Sin (talk · rate)

Needs Vote wipe, Different skills and all the votes rely on the old version.Now Crossfire's Pissed 16:17, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

Now it's just a Deadly Arts Build: A/E AoD Shock Sin. --GuildofDeals 16:18, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

Yer point :DNow Crossfire's Pissed 16:19, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

Possibly WELL tag. --GuildofDeals 16:21, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

Not really, because Now it's just a Deadly Arts. Different u knowNow Crossfire's Pissed 16:22, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

(Lord Belar) I moved this convo to the talk page. Nobody wants to see a conversation on the admin notice board.Now Crossfire's Pissed 17:55, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

R/W Sundering Hunter (talk · rate)

guess. Punjab 16:35, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

Resolved. Vote removed. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 17:09, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

Use of words that I'd normally link with racism here and after reverts here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Amy Awien (contribs) 15:37, 15 March 2008.

It wasn't racist, it's just what people call them. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 15:52, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

Also resolved. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 17:54, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

No, it's not over, Auron felt the need to continue the flamefest and covertly and cowardly added an insult by linking back to one made earlier. Amy Awien 05:16, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Auron is bringing a close to the issue; you are the one continuing the flamefest. In a different context, social connotations of certain terms would be a high priority and be dealt with harshly. This is an unofficial repository of builds for Guild Wars, the culture of the wiki is more or less indifferent to such terms being thrown around casually. Auron has explained this on the talk page without personally attacking any of the involved users. Calling this mediation "cowardly" and "insulting" shows that you are unwilling to get over the flippant but irrelevant usage of one word on the internet, and you want to extend this fruitless argument for as long as you can with no relevant objective. If you can't handle one of your arguments being thrown back at you, learn to debate. -- Scottie_theNerd (argue/criticise/complain) 06:31, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Bullocks, you are twisting things around, I've not responded there and bring it here. Auron is not closing the issue, which was already closed, but attempting to provoke a reaction and rekindle the flames. I am asking admins for a reaction, not some trolling from you. Amy Awien 07:40, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Stop provoking flamewars. It is over. --71.229 06:36, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Tell that to Auron, I am not provoking anything, anonymous troll. Amy Awien 07:40, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

IP addresses have four sets of numbers, not two. Violate NPA less. --71.229 07:45, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Whatever, I'll just contact Razer. Amy Awien 07:49, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Have fun with that. I hope you don't include any lies or false information, because that would be most unfortunate for you. As of now, nobody's done anything wrong; we aren't bound to act by your code of decency. Although, your code of decency seems quite hypocritical, as you take no issue in insulting users yourself - but as soon as anyone else does it, you take offense.

Lastly, refrain from violating NPA or you will be banned. -Auron 08:11, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

The issue was closed, you reopened it by flaming me. The hypocrisy is from you, Auron, your personal attack came indirectly and incredibly cowardly by providing a link to a comment that stated I'd have no brains for linking this word with racism and here you come accusing me and pretending you've done nothing wrong? Amy Awien 10:18, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

No, you breached NPA multiple times. Stop pretending your god and everything you say is right and your sense of morals apply to our wiki. Just because this wiki is not something you believe it should be is no reason to start flaming everyone and causing general trouble. Rawrawr 10:22, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

I've breached NPA? I've been attacked constantly, including by an admin and you focus on my comment versus 71? Amy Awien 10:30, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Yes. And tbh we don't want you here unless you become constructive and stop QQing about shitall. Rawrawr 10:33, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

My personal attack was where? I'd be delighted if you could quote it at me, cos I'm pretty sure I didn't personally attack you. -Auron 12:45, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Its quite clear that people who consider a word racist lack brains ..., is the text you linked to - and thus subscribed to - as the logic. Amy Awien 15:39, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

In any case, this discussion does not belong here. Feel free to continue this discussion elsewhere, like on your talk page. This page is for discussing faults with the build, not a place for a flamefest. As I stated above (at the very top, infact), the issue with the ratings and build moving is resolved. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 15:49, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Team - Mystic Ursanway (talk · rate)

TedTheFarmer's vote. Doesn't understand how much fucking damage you do. --GuildofDeals 17:46, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

In general, as his comments are exactly the same for rating. All 0-0-0's as well. --GuildofDeals 18:23, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

Frvw got it. -Shen 09:41, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Team - Escape Way (talk · rate)

M3atwad's vote. Says "New metas are never innovative.", which is wrong as innovation is can this become/is meta. I don't think further elaboration is necessary, but I can always do that if it should be. 71.229's vote makes no sense at all and does in no way describe why he voted as he did. Godbox 03:31, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

Resolved. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 15:09, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

E/R Magebane (talk · rate)

Mgrinshpon voted in Trial... --GuildofDeals 07:31, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

The guide. Use it. -Auron 07:37, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

A/E AoD Spike Sin (talk · rate)

Vote Wipe please. All the votes talk about the old version.Now Crossfire's Pissed 12:15, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

They do not. Some have AoD+Grasping mentioned, but the core of it is still true to the build. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 13:23, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

A/D Temple Strike Sin (talk · rate)

Few of the votes mention the lack of IAS and IMS, which is wrong. - (ză'rē'năs thĕ shăd'ō)[snō hwīt tăn] 22:45, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

25% faster isnt good enough for IMS. Especially because it relys on an enchantment where enchantment removal exists.Now Crossfire's Pissed 23:30, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

The build was rewritten by the original author. Votes cleared. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 23:54, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

crossfires' new vote has several points that dont make sense, and doesnt warrant a rating of which he gave. 1) whirling charge is fine for getting to an opponent, see the rampant A/D build that uses grenths grasp. 2) it also adds IAS, 25%, which is also fine, considering the chances for dual strike. hell, 25% is good enough anyways given thats what u get for being A/D. 3)enchantment removal? this build doesnt LIVE on enchantments like say, golden assassin attacks and other scythe attacks, and how often will you get all 4 stripped? 4) energy for temple strike is self sustaining at 4e-regen, AND there is attackers insight, which in most other vetts, is reason enough for emanagement. clearly some people just like to knock over builds with no respectable reasoning--Kkagari 09:08, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

The reason was obviously flawed. However, it's not directly related to your stated reason for the removal of his vote. Comments like "X profession builds are only supposed to be able to kill Y profession" votes are invalid to begin with. Anyways, vote is removed. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 13:07, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

A/W Flashing Agility (talk · rate)

Requesting a vote check, Flashing blades,While bad for pvp, isn't to terrible for PvE, yes there are better assassin elites out there but for things like moebius strike you have to wait 88% of the game through before you can cap it. I dont know about most other players, but speaking from personal experience, Flashing blades is the first elite, and easiest to cap, that you come by for an assassin, meaning that learning how to use it effectively can help you get through till you get moebius or some other decent elite. I mean the builds not great or anything but it got me through most of the game. o.O <-Not rich cant buy things like tomes. I dunno just my personal opinion.----ﮎHædõ๘یíɳ 04:23, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

The wiki doesn't rate builds according to how easy they are to put together. They are rated on how good they are once you have them. Lord of all tyria 08:07, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

PvX:WELL specifically states that. There is little point in storing builds that are easy to use or put together but are clearly inferior to other builds. -- Scottie_theNerd (argue/criticise/complain) 08:13, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

That doesn't make the build trash in any way at all. The build clearly works and compared to Critical Defenses the requirements for blocking isn't prone to enchantment removal or blind etc, which is alot more common in PvE than stance removal. Flashing Blades isn't even that bad an elite choice for the build to be quite honest and the trash votes should be reconsidered for removal. Selket Shadowdancer 10:49, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

The requirement for blocking is prone to not attacking. If you get KD'd or are chasing something, other guys can clearly hit you. With Critical Defenses, you SAVE YOUR ELITE, have the same effect, and doesn't require attacking to work. Anyway, when was the last time you DIDN'T get a Crit Strike on an ASSASSSIN in PvE? I don't like Flashing Blades, I only run it on Heroes because I find them to fail at Crit Defenses. --GuildofDeals 13:49, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

No one is debating whether Critical Defenses is a good skill. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 14:05, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

The requirement for blocking is prone to not attacking. If you get KD'd or are chasing something, other guys can clearly hit you. With + 24 armour on yourself, and your party being blessed with +100 armour, should that be a problem for your monks to deal with? With Critical Defenses, you SAVE YOUR ELITE, have the same effect, and doesn't require attacking to work. Anyway, when was the last time you DIDN'T get a Crit Strike on an ASSASSSIN in PvE? Wrong, it does require attacking to work, otherwise how do you achieve a Critical Hit? LOL! Chase someone down, or get blinded, and you are not hitting and lose time to achieve a critical hit that can easily result in downtime which means no blocking for you. You should be attacking, all the time, to maintain Save Yourselves on your party. If you are seriously having issues with using Flashing Blades on an Assassin, a blocking skill that lasts a full 30 seconds, especially on that particular build, I really don't know what to say to you. Selket Shadowdancer 14:25, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Talk page. -Shen 14:31, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Meh, tried btw, not disputing there are better elites out there, or that you should use flashing blades over them o.O so yes flashing blades isnt great, never said it was. ----ﮎHædõ๘یíɳ 16:24, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Team - UW Wall Group (talk · rate)

Alleskapot his vote says that you do not need tanks for UW O.o. And rihadol compares it to a Dou build >.< --Fox007 07:16, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

You don't. Tanks are bad. Any other comments? -Auron 09:04, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Does that makes it a good reason anyways? --Fox007 09:17, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Discuss it further on the build talk page; if you wanted a reason for his vote, you should have asked him for it. -Auron 09:25, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

I did. --Fox007 09:43, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Team - Great Dwarf's Vampiric Order (talk · rate)

Jboy's vote doesn't make any sense and he won't change it either. Check build talk page for more details about this.Frans 09:21, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Could anyone remove it plz?Frans 15:38, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

N/any Soul Reaping Hybrid (talk · rate)

zarka's vote is displaying the classic symptoms of Fail. Punjab 14:40, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Resolved. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 15:01, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

A/W Auspicious Agility (talk · rate)

Elite change, vote wipe please. Selket Shadowdancer 07:14, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

It still sucksNow Crossfire's Pissed 09:36, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Is there really any need for that? You cast your vote, don't act like a dick about it. Selket Shadowdancer 09:45, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Thats not acting like a dick. Trying to prove a bad build owns is being a dick. Im just stating my opinion.Now Crossfire's Pissed 09:48, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Yes, it is acting like a dick, because you already passed your opinion in your vote, which means it isn't nessacary here. All you are doing with your previous comment is trolling the admin noticeboard. Selket Shadowdancer 09:59, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Let the admins talk here instead we are wasting time.Now Crossfire's Pissed 10:00, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Though it's not a good build, he's right, don't post it here, and don't tell HIM to not post here, because you provoked him.Frans 11:39, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Your opinion, Crossfire, belongs on the Talk page, not the admin noticeboard. Please do not use the noticeboard to express opinions regarding how good or bad a build is, and especially do not attempt to drag on an argument. -- Scottie_theNerd (argue/criticise/complain) 13:12, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Alright, thanks Scottie. Sorry SkelketNow Crossfire's Pissed 16:15, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Mo/any Pendulum Support Smiter (talk · rate)

PvXJing's vote. It makes no sense tbh. Swiftslash \\ (contributions *sandbox) 14:25, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

Resolved. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 18:18, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

N/E GoR Hexer (talk · rate)

Build was remade, votes are now invalid. Swiftslash \\ (contributions *sandbox) 14:31, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

ResolvedX14 09:42, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

A/E Conjure Shackles (talk · rate)

Guilds vote, asks purpose of icy shackles when u have black mantis, reason is that it is a hex. By that logic, why have SP when you have black mantis one second later? fix plz. IAm *Jebus* 17:57, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

SP Sins (Trampling Ox) have a short lasting Shadow Prison (only 3 Deadly Arts). It's only used to keep them snared until you use Black Mantis Thrust. Anyway, Shadow Prison provides a Shadow Step as well. --GuildofDeals 17:58, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Hes right X( <font color=black face=hyborian>X</font><font color=darkred>14</font> 21:41, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Check coding :P IAm *Jebus* 22:03, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

If thats the case why use Shadow Prison? May aswell use Dark Prison and free up your elite slot. 5 seconds extra recharge isn't that much difference. Selket Shadowdancer 22:30, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Use Build talk:A/E Conjure Shackles, please. The admin noticeboard brings our attention to the debate. It shouldn't host the debate, because this is probably one of the most watched pages on the entire wiki. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 22:33, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Kk my bad. Ill avoid posting on other builds hereX14 22:36, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

W/E Shock Axe (talk · rate)

Zarka's logic is tremendously flawed. Punjab 19:09, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

The build has 61 5-5-5s. One vote is not important unless it is a major vote that decides the category the build is placed in.X14 19:45, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

It does on this build. --71.229 19:51, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

User:Shadowsin's vote for example: It makes me hate warriors, and go ouchX14 19:55, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

It does make me hate warriors, and my monk ouches.----ﮎHædõ๘یíɳ 22:42, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

Btw Zarka's logic is flawed, saying shock axe is bad against anti melee is like saying casters are bad against daze. Its like obvious but not every build can carry its own counters, thus relying on its teamates to make up for it. just like if you daze a war its like lolwut?----ﮎHædõ๘یíɳ 22:48, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

No need to remove any more, the average is 5.00. — Skakid 22:56, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

wow didnt notice that o.O----ﮎHædõ๘یíɳ 23:00, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, but it's 4.97 for innovation. Remove tycn's. :P Lord Belar 23:09, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

It's a rather pointless removal, but I have removed the vote anyway -- it is true, stating that anti-melee counters melee builds doesn't make sense as far as vote comments go. -- Scottie_theNerd (argue/criticise/complain) 00:34, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

N/Rt Corrupt Enchantments (talk · rate)

Obviously the author vote explains nothing.X14 19:51, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

btw crossfire, price of failure is also prophecies.--Kkagari 20:59, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

Reckless isntX14 21:08, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

Also look at all the votes that say IP is bad. Antiarchangel NO U 14:44, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

It doesnt stop melee it just makes them take damage which PRICE DOES TOOX14 15:12, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

A/E Shackles Spike Sin (talk · rate)

Kkgari's vote. Mentions spike is slow, but it is a variant to the "great" version archived. Also mentions no synergy with elite and build... which makes no sense at all.X14 21:22, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

you tried reading the discussion page yet? or even the rest of my vote? any vanilla hex would serve the purpose of what you are using icy shackles for. just because you use the same attack chain, DOESNT make your build a variant, the crux of the build is totally different.--Kkagari 01:10, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Talkpage plz, and Icy shackles is probably the best snare in the game.X14 09:32, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Me/N Signet of Midnight Mesmer (talk · rate)

Railin clearly doesn't know mesmers. especially after the e-conundrum nerf... -- Mafaraxas 03:02, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

ResolvedX14 15:14, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

E/N Hex Prodigy (talk · rate)

Another BMs opinion on this, thanks. — Skakid 13:33, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

A/E Deadly Renewal (talk · rate)

Crossfires vote is inaccurate. Build has only 15 seconds downtime. User says Shadow Prison, which would give the build 10 seconds more downtime, dominates it. User is overlooking the use of Shock in the build and clearly hasn't read the usage. Selket Shadowdancer 15:28, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Iron palm is 20 seconds, and Shadow Prison even post nerf is still better.X14 15:32, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Shock. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 15:40, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Thankyou Teh Uber Pwnzer. Overlooks Shock, see? You use Shock to restart the second chain. That way Iron Palm is ready for the third use and by the time you use Shock again on the fourth use your exhaustion is gone. Loop. Shadow Prison makes no difference as its mainly used for the shadowstep and primer for Iron Palm more than the snare, which Dark Prison can do just aswell only that it can be renewed meaning less downtime, seems you only have three melee attacks, one of which (the first) KDs and one of which (the 2nd) your target is KD'd for and is still snared for the last. Shadow Prison offers less versatility because it has a 25 second recharge and cannot be renewed by Glyph of Renewal. Selket Shadowdancer 15:43, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

You use Shock to restart the second chain Its too energy heavy. Dark prison is 10 energy you know.X14 22:43, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Build has 44 energy to start with. Should you actually try it, you will find energy isn't as big an issue as people seem to think it is. Whatever floats your boat I guess. Selket Shadowdancer 08:47, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

A/E Shackles Spike Sin (talk · rate)

GoD is talking about no e-management, how deadly arts skill + shadowstep (Shadow Prison of course) should be used, etc.X14 23:05, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Crit Strikes says hi. Atleast with the SP version you could auto-attack and gain some energy. --GuildofDeals 10:25, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

No need all skills are like 5 energy.X14 10:26, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Atleast with the SP version you could auto-attack and gain some energy. From me, above. --GuildofDeals 10:27, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Ok so like 3 crit should be no problem with zeal daggers.X14 10:28, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Most DA spike Sins run Deadly Arts@12+1+2, Dagger Mastery@9+1, Critical Strikes@9+1. That's what you're missing. --GuildofDeals 10:29, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Ok il fix, thanksX14 10:32, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Talk page.... Use it?----ﮎHædõ๘یíɳ 05:00, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

E/any Hybrid Ward Nuke (talk · rate)

hey, would it be possible if an admin could remove the ratings on the build because the build has undertaken some large changes that greatly affect its performance, and since there is no longer a need for the monk proffession can it be moved to E/any cuz i dont know how to do that. thx in advance ¤ Abadabadoo¤ 07:06, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

I moved the page, but im not an admin. I agree that there needs to be a vote wipe, tho. Build was completely changed. IAm *Jebus* 09:38, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Votes wiped. Resolved. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 18:25, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Team - Polar Bearway (talk · rate)

Lord Belar should provide some more reason if he is going to rate it 0-0-0. It's obviously not that bad. Godbox 18:01, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Header fail. Lord Belar 18:03, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

It is pretty hard to make a usefull variant of just the bar with ursan blessing O.o --Fox007 05:03, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Anyway, dupes don't make 0-0-0. Shock Axe and Disrupting Axe have nearly the same bars, but I don't see 0-0-0's on them. --GuildofDeals 10:16, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Yeah look at Broad head arrow ranger and Burning Arrow Ranger. EXACT same skills only a different elite yet theyre both greatX14 10:35, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Yeah.... can an admin plz remove Lord's vote. The build is in "good" now because of him.X14 10:37, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

N/Rt Foul Feast Healer (talk · rate)

ChrisRodrigues vote is wrong. The build isn't random, more damage is just good, his example fails and his last comment makes no sense. Godbox 12:54, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Resolved. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 18:19, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

E/Rt Unsteady Warder (talk · rate)

Added Glyph of lesser energy, build has good E management now. Vote whipe plz--The Gates Assassin 21:40, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Resolved. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 21:50, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

N/Rt Corrupt Enchantments (talk · rate)

Author vote explains nothingX14 18:48, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

Resolved. *Defiant Elements* +talk 18:53, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

P/W Focused PvE Paragon (talk · rate)

<5 overall rating. Serious fucking business. --71.229 21:30, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

User:Voidwalker, and User:St. Michael. Their ratings are like OMG Antiarchangel NO U 21:33, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

Not really necessary for removal (as was the case with the Shock Axe), but removed nonetheless. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 17:34, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

A/D Dark Apostasy Scythe (talk · rate)

Moved from Fox Promise Scythe, I feel the old FP ratings should be removed. Dragnmn talk cont 10:35, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

Fixed. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 18:06, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

A/R Sundering Assassin (talk · rate)

Different Elite votes are invalid. Please look over.X14 17:20, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

They all refer to the Sundering/Penetrating nerf... — Rapta (talk|contribs) 18:08, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

Gates specificly mentions way of the assissin being used i the build, nd Zukko (i think thta's right) at least refrences Gates. PheNaxKian (T/c) 18:14, 26 March 2008 (EDT)