Build talk:Team - Sabway/Archive 1

Well, this is a build I imported from Guru. It is known as Sab's three necro build. It wasn't on wiki but it's one of the best HM team builds around, so I decided to submit it. --Batno mercy 07:56, 5 January 2008 (EST)

Well, it's been some time and no comment was made on the build, although it is outstanding from my point of view :( Please comment and make suggestions so it can go to the testing status and not only trial.Batno mercy 14:01, 7 January 2008 (EST)

Don't vote on builds while they're in trial. --GuildofDeals 17:35, 9 January 2008 (EST)

When I asked Sab if I could submit this build (a month or two ago), she said she'd prefer if it wasn't on PvX. I dunno if you care, but you might get some hate for that. -- Mafaraxas 23:53, 9 January 2008 (EST)

Who cares? Necros own, people've been using them for ages. The meta already hates us for hosting meta builds =P 00:14, 10 January 2008 (EST)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Skakid9090 (talk • contribs) .

Yeh, this does totally own HM. The version I have has Vengeful instead of Splinter on the healer and a res signet instead of Extinguish on the MM, but it's not really important. -- Mafaraxas 00:26, 10 January 2008 (EST)

I haven't asked Sab like you did, mafaraxas, but I think that this build wasn't unknown, so it was only a matter of time someone posted it up here, and what better than helping people, as HM is HARD with the wrong party. I had read the Vetting article but it didn't state explicitly enough for me at the first reading that you shouldn't rate trial builds.--Batno mercy 11:40, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Healer Necro

Why does the healer work best as a Necro? Kiteeye 08:32, 10 January 2008 (EST)

The healer is better as a Necro because it's Healing spells are pretty consistent at 12 Restoration Magic. But there is the problem of Energy. This build has been designed mostly around the insane energy management that necros have from Soul Reaping, combined with Jagged Bones. Basically, this Healer is NEVER short of energy.--Batno mercy 11:40, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Sab-way

"Sab-way" ftw lol...very good hero team been using it alot 121.45.194.46 11:48, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Someone needs to rename this Sabway, thats what everyone recognizes it by, and if not, perhaps a title mentioning soul reaping would be more appropriate. Mr Emu 23:41, 16 January 2008 (EST)

Ritualist MM

On the MM build have you considered having as a varient taking a Ritualist primary and putting points from Soul reaping into Spawning, and taking boon of creation instead of SolS? (just a thought to consider)PheNaxKian (T/c) 13:59, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Soul Reaping is key. -- Mafaraxas 16:47, 10 January 2008 (EST)

I realise soul-reaping is for e-managment etc. but because it's on the MM with boon of creation, that yould act as the equivalent of soul reaping+SoLS in a way.PheNaxKian (T/c) 16:59, 10 January 2008 (EST)

I think that it wouldn't work as well. Let me explain why: It's about the same princip as the healer being necro and not ritualist. Soul Reaping is the key of this build. What monsters do is just swarm your minions (who are enchanted with jagged bones) and slaughter them, killing themselves and producing new minions. The diying minions give energy to the whole party. I think that if the MM goes Rt/N it would result in the minions diying prematurely (12 death magic means way too low level minions who won't be able to fulfill their role of tanking efficiently). The MM himself would have enough energy because of Boon of Creation, but this would be useless, as your team doesnt get the same energy boost. I'll try to run once or twice with Rt/N to see any other flaws. But basically, that could be a less effective variant for those who don't want 3 necros for any reason.--Batno mercy 11:05, 11 January 2008 (EST)

they would tank just as well because all though you can't get them a higher level, because your using spawning, it increases their health etc. And it was only a suggest alternative if people jsut fancy taking a rit instead of a necro..(I understand why the healer is a necro though hence why i didn't say make the healer a Rit...although XD joke)PheNaxKian (T/c) 17:05, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Yesterday I tried a group of standart foes with a Ritualist Primary MM.Worked out decently, until they started diying. The damage wasn't enough from Death Nova, resulting in slower killing. But if it works anywhere else than Dragon's Throat, I'll put it in Variants.--Batno mercy 11:05, 11 January 2008 (EST)

It's cause the N/Mo has pspirit and aegis. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 17:08, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Take GW:Spirit's gift GW:Explosive Growth then some sort of optional (Boon replace SoLS so you'd still have a free) PheNaxKian (T/c) 17:18, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Going Rt/N means you can't take Protective Spirit and Aegis. -- Mafaraxas 18:03, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Hence the replacements mentioned above.....PheNaxKian (T/c) 10:17, 11 January 2008 (EST)

My main concern is that the MM will not be able to prevent the enormous spiking that is done in HM (I usually go with a protection monk too, 2 Prot spirits = much better management). He can't run shelter, shelter isn't good with almost no restoration.--Batno mercy 11:05, 11 January 2008 (EST)

I assume you mean communing not restoration-well you have 9 atts from Protection so you could put them into communing then take a minor communing rune that gives you 10 in communing, then you could take Shelter and union (use union first) so it acts as a huge damage buffer while they're alive, you could also take displacment so you have 75% chance to block (sort of an Aegis replacment)PheNaxKian (T/c) 11:23, 11 January 2008 (EST)

I will try and run that build--Batno mercy 11:53, 11 January 2008 (EST)

The N/Mo is better. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 16:58, 11 January 2008 (EST)

Not saying it isn't i just think it would be a good idea to have some sort of alternative if people want. PheNaxKian (T/c) 18:53, 11 January 2008 (EST)

It'd just be too inferior as Rt/N; the whole build works on the soul reaping, and going Rt/N means you have to use another slot for strippable, inferior energy management, which means you won't be raising as many minions which means less energy for the other heroes. Besides, spirits are just inferior to monk prots, especially when you're tacking them at the end of a bar. -- Mafaraxas 20:30, 11 January 2008 (EST)

I ran the MM build as Rt/N. Took all of the skills you suggested and went to dajkah inlet chellenge mission (HM). I just couldn't make any use of that rit. He never casted the spirits and had no energy after 3 minutes of fighting. I don't think this could be a viable alternative.--Batno mercy 14:17, 12 January 2008 (EST)

Ok-was just a possibility i thought was all but if it doesn't work oh well =P PheNaxKian (T/c) 14:26, 12 January 2008 (EST)

My Userpage

This build has been posted on my user page. Copy + Paste? Also... I still can't rate builds :S It says I need contributions.... any tips? Everlong

Contribution = editing anything and saving the page. You need 8 to be able to rate. Also, it doesn't matter less if it was copypasta from your userpage, as builds don't belong to anyone here. You probably just copy-pasted from Sab (or copy-pasted it from a friend who copy-pasted it from Sab), anyway. -- Mafaraxas 15:47, 13 January 2008 (EST)

Sab copy pasted it on Guru. All goes down to one first person. I thank him a lot, but there is no need to bash everyone who says anything about this build without mentioning Sab.--Batno mercy 18:44, 13 January 2008 (EST)

I don't think I was bashing, I was just pointing out that Everlong's implied claim that the builds were originally his is just wrong, regardless of how much credit Sab deserves for the current version. -- Mafaraxas 01:03, 14 January 2008 (EST)

...Using 3 necros (and so generic as an MM, SS, and N/Rt healer), isn't a new idea, Sab didn't invent it, but he did a pretty good job fine-tuning and ppularizing it. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 18:48, 13 January 2008 (EST)

I didn't claim I made these builds, i claimed that i went through the time to convert them into Wiki formatting. I got them from Sab. Everlong

I was using 3 necs in PvE too before I saw it, but yeah, Sab's build is good to steal ideas from. Btw, it doesn't take long to stick something into PvX tags. :) --Mala 12:38, 14 January 2008 (EST)

Achievements with build

I'd like to add a section on what you can achieve with this build. Post what you have achieved with it (talking in PvE titles: vanquishing, protecting, guarding). Let me start this:

• Canthan Guardian and Protector, Vanquished Cantha too.--Batno mercy 10:43, 15 January 2008 (EST)

Anything that has corpses in it and doesn't have massive AoE or uber bosses that kill the minions in one hit. -- Mafaraxas 15:00, 15 January 2008 (EST)

Nice to see this build up here, I was actually thinking of registering and trying to learn the wiki know-how just to post this, cause it's been a huge help in HM for me. A friend of mine and me vanquished Cantha and Tyria with this, and now we're starting with Elona. We also did some of the HM missions, and I hero/henched many areas in GWEN and HM Vloxxen Excavations with it (was the last dungeon I had left for Master of North title and at the time I was in a mostly PvP guild so couldn't get a team for it). 78.2.2.148 09:14, 19 January 2008 (EST)

Hench?

Anyone got some good tips of what Henchmen to use whenever you are vanquishing or doing missions with H/H? Thanks in advance.. Adriaanz 11:46, 15 January 2008 (EST)

I always run two monks and two frontliners, but you can just as easily run one monk (prot preferably) and one frontliner with two support/damage casters if the area doesn't have too much pressure. -- Mafaraxas 15:03, 15 January 2008 (EST)

In Tyria, run with Mhenlo and Eve obligatory, then Devona and the mesmer if u want. I usually bring one warrior with damage or KD, one healing monk and 2 interrupt/support/lifestealers.--Batno mercy 16:00, 15 January 2008 (EST)

It's all down to preference. I used to run with all casters... I don't use this exact build, just to point out. Back when I had a resto necro running IV I would take 2 hench monks, but since now I've dropped IV and take a bunch of defense on myself, I go with a prot hench, herta if she's there (for wards) and 2 wammos to exploit channeling hax (read: splinter/ancestor's). Course if you want to be safer on HM take 2 monks. --Mala 18:08, 15 January 2008 (EST)

Im kind of confused about hench for this build as well. I'm trying to level my ebon rank, so i decided to try and vanquish dalada uplands. I figured with my shouts (i run focused support P/W build), the resto rit, and a prot monk we would be fine. I was so wrong. They interrupt/hexed us to death within the first couple of groups. So, my question is: with 2 monks, a resto nec, and my defensive shouts, would my team still have enough damage to clear HM? (i bring Lina, Devona, Cynn, and Zho for interrupts normally) User:Gabe 23:07, 18 January 2008 (EST) Gabe

I henched most of GWEN and plenty of missions in Cantha and Elona with this team and the ones I used were Herta/Kai Ying, both monks and then one random, mostly a physical attacker (Aidan cause of Barrage in GWEN, one of the warr hens in Cantha were the most popular choices). There was one minor issue of there being no warder in Echovald, so I used Cynn. :/ For Tyria I had a friend with me (thankfully since hens there are the worst) and for 8 person areas we were using many things but in the end we settled for a SoR para (a variant similar to what is used in GvG's relatively often now - with Shield's Up and WY, too bad they can't manage Aggressive Refrain cause it would definetely be a part of that build), Barrage ranger (N/Rt splinter's him and para for massive pain, and they make Barbs that more useful) and a hybrid WoH/prot monk (for some reason Tahlkora is doing fine with it). If I was forced to hench Tyria I guess the two monks, Eve and Little Thom would've been my choices, but I'm glad I wasn't forced to hench it. :D Oh and for 6 person areas we just used that WoH hybrid ofc. Not that it's important but my char was an ele (Mind Blast, Rodgort's, Painverter) and my friend was yet another nec swimming in energy (he ran SV/SoS similar to the Duncan SV build). 78.2.2.148 09:14, 19 January 2008 (EST)

Thanks, but did you use those in HM? I don't plan to HM tyria anytime soon, so thats not the problem. But if you did do HM, were you able to output a considerable amount of damage? I can run that para build your talking about, but I prefer the Focused Support Para we have an PvX, mostly b/c of SY and TNtF. So, with 3 healers (2 hench monks and the resto nec), 1 support (my para build), and 4 damage, I need to know if it can kill HM monks. I really cant test myself now b/c of pc issues, somebody mind testing? User:Gabe 16:39, 19 January 2008 (EST) Gabe

Useless Variant

"You can make your heroe half monk and put a ressurect on there" under the N/Rt healer. How does that make any sense? 130.49.27.168 12:37, 17 January 2008 (EST)

I think it means you can do N/Mo in stead of N/Rt and use a Monk res in stead of Death Pact Signet. Which makes sense for the SS necro but none at all for the healer since changing that to N/Rt means changing almost the entire skillbar...

edit: I changed it so it makes better sense. 77.162.186.231

SS Necro

I just thought it was kind of weird putting Mark of Pain on a SS Necro. For SS, you want the enemies to stay clumped together in order to deal the most damage possible. Last time I checked, Mark of Pain sends mobs scattering after a few hits. Are you supposed to use Mark of Pain on an enemy that's far away from the enemy that you cast ss on? 75.70.135.246 23:37, 18 January 2008 (EST) Charon

It synergizes with the minions; you'll be doing more damage with the 3-4 seconds of Mark of Pain spam-activating with all the minions attacking the target than you would with 33 shadow damage every few seconds with SS. -- Mafaraxas 00:00, 19 January 2008 (EST)

Changes?

I checked the link to guru and noticed that several skills have changed in the conversion to PvX. For example, the MM didn't have extinguish, prot spirit, or aegis; it used mend body and soul, spirit light, and another hard res. Also, the SS nec had desecrate enchants, defile flesh, and insidious parasite. Finally, the healing nec used vengeful weapon. I know these are somewhat minute, but my point is this: i tried running the PvX version on HM in dalada, and noticed that the healing is not nearly enough. However, i could very well have had a bad hench set-up, and i should also mention that I only brought one hench monk. I probably should've brought 2 monks for HM, but I felt that their may be a somewhat "overkill" effect on the team's healing ability. I bring all this up to say: if the Guru build could be used to finish Slaver's Exile in 14 minutes w/ a 2 man, 6 hero team, then isn't it more effective than the changed one? Gabe 21:15, 19 January 2008 (EST) Gabe

Well, the variants you posted (except restoration on the MM) are already variants in the build. The main build is supposed to be used as a template for general use, and the non-critical parts can be freely changed to fit the situation. Taking the Slaver's example from the Guru post, Sab's MM had Wards Against Melee and Stability if I remember right. Maybe that's not clear enough in the build, I dunno. -- Mafaraxas 22:31, 19 January 2008 (EST)

The build as posted is what Sab runs. Nyktos (talk · contribs) 23:09, 19 January 2008 (EST)