Archive talk:W/P "On Your Knees" Knock-lock

Enduring Harmony doesn't worth the slot, take Crushing instead. An IAS would help too. Rez sig should be on the main bar. And two majors are kind of bad. ~ ĐONT*TALK 03:11, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Indeed. You'll actually want to take advantage of the constant knockdowns by killing them. And kicking out the runes is a good idea, too. -StarSeeker | My talk 09:17, 10 February 2008 (EST)

The point of this build

The point of this build is to slowly kill the monk while making it useless by dropping their time to cast to almost none. If no monk, kill any other. Devastating Hammer hits a lot of damage (70+) and Crushing Blow is listed as an Optional skill. Take it if you want, I don't. --Risus 09:19, 10 February 2008 (EST)

On average, devhammer hits for 51.7 damage. The "spike" is 174.1 damage on average. Crushing alone takes off 170.7 hp (assuming they're KD'd). That being said, run the vetted DH build. –Ichigo724 09:24, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Yes, but this build is to keep them on the ground, not to spike them. Good monks can counter the spike easily by using Dismiss Condition then a healing spell. They only get about 1 second to do anything, so they will be busy healing themselves allowing your teammates to kill the rest of the team. --Risus 11:02, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Auspicious Blow is pointless in this build. You'll never have time to use it if you want to keep them knocked down. You have to do Dev Hammer + "On Your Knees!" + Enraging Charge + regular attack, and then keep repeating that. Backbreaker works MUCH better for the build concept:

<pvxbig> [build prof=warrior/paragon hammer=12+1+1 strength=12+2][Flail][Enraging Charge]["On Your Knees"][Backbreaker][Pulverizing Smash]["For Great Justice"][Enduring Harmony][Resurrection Signet][/build] </pvxbig>

Use Backbreaker, then immediately do "On Your Knees" + Enraging Charge, hit once with a regular Hammer attack and go into Flail, hit with another regular hammer attack, and then use Backbreaker again and keep repeating the chain. Pulverizing Smash can be used for Deep Wound when it comes time to kill the opponent instead of knocking them down more. This bar is FAR superior the original because you will keep knocking the opponent down less than a 1/4 of second after they stand up. Plus, it does more damage. I'm going to scrap the build on the main page for this one. Zuranthium 15:27, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Zuranthium, as author of this page, I am editing your build to make it BETTER. I like the change of elite though. Instead of Flail, I'm using Auspicious Blow for energy management, as in 4 seconds, you can use 2 hammer attacks, allowing Enraging Charge -> Backbreaker -> Pulverizing Smash -> "On Your Knees" -> Enraging Charge -> Auspicious Blow -> Backbreaker -> repeat --Risus 16:29, 10 February 2008 (EST)

That's absolutely horrible. The opponent will have 1.25 seconds to do something before getting hit by the second Backbreaker. You may be the author of the page but you don't seem to understand how the build even works. Zuranthium 17:46, 10 February 2008 (EST)

You do realize Tiger Stance will absolutly ruin the build? Its 10 energy per Backbreaker, and with the Warriors energy pool, you'd get 3 Backbreakers in. And hammer is average 1 attack per 1.5 seconds, so the next Backbreaker would hit .5 seconds after they get up, not including the 1/4-1/3 a second they take to get up. You would have plenty of time. I will also add a link to a video as evidence.--Risus 18:44, 10 February 2008 (EST)

I AM LAUGHING SO HARD RIGHT NOW. This is, like, the most epic post EVER. 10 energy per Backbreaker?? LMAO!!! It costs adrenaline, not energy. Also, Hammer attack speed is 1.75 seconds, not 1.5. BTW...Tiger Stance? When did I ever say ANYTHING about Tiger Stance? Zuranthium 19:50, 10 February 2008 (EST)

You are such a DA. Tiger Stance and Enraging Charge LEAD UP to Backbreaker, so in theory, it takes 10 energy no mater the adrenal cost. And you put Tiger Stance in the build so you implied to use it? And even with the 1.75 attack speed do the math. 5.25 seconds and if you've realized it takes about 1/2 a second more on a KD for them to get up, they have 3/4 a second. 1 spell isn't going to do much, not to mention they can't throw up Guardian. But I'm tired of arguring (<--maybe misspelled, I'm not a good speller), I'm moving yours to the varient, and using the Auspicious Blow build on top--Risus 19:57, 10 February 2008 (EST)

What the HELL are you talking about. Tiger Stance??? I put F-L-A-I-L in the build, which costs no energy. And the rest of what you said...it's simply wrong. Zuranthium 20:02, 10 February 2008 (EST)

OOPS my bad..., but you still need Auspicious Blow. I posted it as a OPTIONAL skill --Risus 20:05, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Dude, you don't "need" Auspicious Blow at all. It screws up the attack chain. The only place it would ever even be semi-useful is AB, where you don't need the Rez Sig. Zuranthium

Then please explain what you will do once your energy drops below 5? --Risus 20:23, 10 February 2008 (EST)

By the time your energy gets that low stuff will be dead or you'll have lost the match. Zuranthium 20:25, 10 February 2008 (EST)

I agree with Zuranthium, because his theory is right and yours isn't, sorry. Test it if you want, you'll see. -StarSeeker | My talk 16:54, 11 February 2008 (EST)

Wait...you also get the 15 seconds fGJ is off..ok I agree with you. Thx for the change --Risus 21:04, 11 February 2008 (EST)

I've been told that my laughing and caps-locked works seemed harsh. No ill will towards you, be well. Zuranthium 15:50, 12 February 2008 (EST)

gobble gobble gobble gobble gobble gobble gobble gobble gobble gobble gobble gobble Railin 13:02, 17 February 2008 (EST)

I don't know if this works, I'll have to try it out, though in theory, a player could use For Great Justice in combination with Enraging Charge and arrive at 10 adrenaline (+4 adrenaline strikes upon hit with Enraging Charge plus the actual strike itself makes +5 adrenaline strikes. 200% of 5 is 10. "On your knees", and then rinse and repeat. You could keep a player down for a full 20 seconds until "For Great Justice" ends, couldn't you? Perhaps I'm doing the math wrong, though. --80.16.169.162 08:36, 20 February 2008 (EST)

If that's true, you'd need some sort of surefire hit to activate adrenaline such as Soldier's Strike imo. --80.16.169.162 10:01, 20 February 2008 (EST)

If your first attack is blocked Backbreaker will be too so it isn't really needed. ~ ĐONT*TALK 10:04, 20 February 2008 (EST)

The duration is 30 seconds, it lasts 50% longer with Enduring Harmoney. --Risus 16:40, 21 February 2008 (EST)