Archive talk:Team - Shove Spike/Archive

Is Death's Retreat necessary? Lift Enchantment can be more useful to remove prots. cKow^Dont 14:46, 1 January 2008 (EST)

Yeah, because on some maps scenery is used to its full potential, and in cases such as the D'Alessio arena, spikes can be easily made from the bridge and the raised centre of the map. In order to get back the warrior would have to run up the slope to the bridge, moving out of range from the monks and unnecessarily exposing him to spikes and ganks, or putting the monks at risk, where the whole team concept is to get in and out as fast as possible, and avoid taking hits.

Though possibly changing disrupting dagger for lift enchantments may work well. ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 14:58, 1 January 2008 (EST)

Shove disables all skills. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 15:01, 1 January 2008 (EST)

Hmm you're right. Then one of the Stonesoul Strikes. At least one copy of enchant removal is needed imo.. cKow^Dont 15:03, 1 January 2008 (EST)

The damage is below 60, making it unprottable. It's rly hard to monk against. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 15:16, 1 January 2008 (EST)

Exactly, therefore the only prot against it is prot spirit, SH and SoA, and you can still kill through prot spirit. No ench removal necessary, just have to pick your targets well. ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 15:18, 1 January 2008 (EST)

I got tons of ez glad points with this build.. our monk bars were different though. Instead of DH we had an SoD. And a draw on the SoD for the RC. And death's retreat isn't nessecary since the warrior has shadow walk too. Just walk on the bridge BEFORE spiking together. Railin 15:56, 1 January 2008 (EST)

Death's Charge/Retreat is to circumvent interruption, simple thievery and sig of humil, as you cannot use grapple in a shadow walk spike unless you use shadow walk AFTER you have grappled, which requires the warrior running into range rather than shadow stepping. The only thing about running SoD is the energy management and the fact that hexes can still screw you over- however I will still leave it in variants. ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 20:38, 1 January 2008 (EST)

Uh, we usually shadowspike with Shove, then walk up close to the next target for a grapple. I don't see why the warrior just doesn't use shadow walk and dash too, that way they can all do it together. Railin 01:05, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Try Shadow Walk spiking if Shove gets disabled. You shadow step back before the knockdown from grapple works. ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 04:32, 2 January 2008 (EST)

You shadowspike with Shove. And walk/dash up to the person to grapple. Railin 07:18, 2 January 2008 (EST)

"It's a ~800 damage spike in TA... -Edru" LOLWUT? –Ichigo724 18:06, 1 January 2008 (EST)

The vote was that the spike wasn't very high damage... and it's about 800 damage and DW with 4 people... That's like pre-nerf ritspike numbers. --Edru viransu//QQ about me/sysop 18:56, 1 January 2008 (EST)

Nvm, I'm an idiot, I forgot it was *2onKD –Ichigo724 18:59, 1 January 2008 (EST)

Yes, hence this is one of the most powerful TA spikes there is, as well as one of the fastest, cleanest and hardest to kill. ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 20:38, 1 January 2008 (EST)

Everytime you have a good team build that is winning a lot, the streak is ended by this build.- Jak123X 18:53, 1 January 2008 (EST)

I was originally rolled by this twice when fighting Goth, and then I was inspired to further develop and perfect that build. I believe I have came close to achieving that goal, namely the latter. ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 20:38, 1 January 2008 (EST)

6 votes u can change it to like whatever it is rated--Lucky121 (talk*pvxcontribs) 19:19, 1 January 2008 (EST)

This is the real Gothway, with some minor adjustments. VegaObscura 20:21, 1 January 2008 (EST)

Perhaps the minor adjustments are improvements? So is it a possibility I may see you running my modification someday? ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 20:38, 1 January 2008 (EST)

pretty bad build... Faced this in TA a couple of times and the only time my guild lost was the first time because we had no idea what it was. Every time after that, we were able to easily infuse the spike and kill the team. Even if they were trying to spike our monk, balanced stance removes about half the damage, and so follow that with any weak heal and its gg.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Og lo (contribs) .

Can't have been this build, must have been the weaker 'TA Smite Spike' and certainly wasn't against Knights of Perfection or Goth. We both run this build with much more skill, and won't let ourselves get busted by an infuser which you just don't see in TA. ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 04:34, 2 January 2008 (EST)

i didn't think that anyone brought infuse in ta...tell me if im wrong tho.— Cheese Slaya (Talk) 21:53, 1 January 2008 (EST)

The people runing it were bad if they let themselves get infused (a.k.a not attacking an infuser) — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 22:55, 1 January 2008 (EST)

This build needs nerfing. Too high of a damage that is mostly can't be protected, and just kite and repeat.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.127.165.76 (contribs) .

OMG SOMEONE FOUND A USE FOR SMITING PRAYERS NERF IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! VegaObscura 03:02, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Agreed, just because smiting has a use other than for support it shouldn't be nerfed. Also, I'm surprised no-one made this work any sooner, since there was the holy hammer warrior which used smites to a certain degree of effectiveness... ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 04:34, 2 January 2008 (EST)

So you kite for around 30 seconds waiting for your shadow step to be recharged? Watch me work it 05:09, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Or you play it the skilled way and spike more than once every 30 seconds by calling spikes with grapple. ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 06:13, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Yes. Even the warrior. He kites doubly hard, because he's so useless without his shadow step. :O --71.208.141.117 05:16, 2 January 2008 (EST)

It was in fact this build with an SoD instead of the convert hexes, we easily took it down with balanced stance on our monk and spirit transfer on our rit. Thing is, one of the spikers was from [eF]. That is why I am saying that this build is bad. Especially since it was very minor pressure that took down this build. Once a single spiker is down, the others have to come close and stand still to rez him, which makes the remaining three very vulnerable. Especially if the RC or WoH was killed. Og lo 06:52, 2 January 2008 (EST)

They were doing it wrong. Also, lol rock-paper-scissors. --71.208.141.117 06:54, 2 January 2008 (EST)

What type of an idiot runs an infuse in TA? --- Ressmonkey (talk) 07:01, 2 January 2008 (EST)

PUGenius. --71.208.141.117 07:02, 2 January 2008 (EST)

First of all, the infuse i was referring to was spirit transfer, second of all they were running it exactly as it says in the usage. This build only works the FIRST TIME. At least learn to bring something against spikes everywhere you go <_< Og lo 07:35, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Maybe if they, I dunno, killed the spirit or something, they'd be able to do it right. But that'd be craziness. And drop the condescending attitude, it isn't helping anything. --71.208.141.117 07:37, 2 January 2008 (EST)

yeah, kill the spirit with a spike build, thats 1 spike gone, wasted against a 15 sec recharge spirit. Og lo 07:40, 2 January 2008 (EST)

800 damage - 160 damage = a successful spike. Send over one monk to kill the spirit. Pretty basic. --71.208.141.117 07:51, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Please read my posts... Damage against a monk with balanced stance gets cut in two and stops the deep wound, even if they are spiking a caster, heard of something called interrupts? An interrupt on shove and the spike is dead, an interrupt on any skill in the spike and thats 100 damage lost... Please understand the mechanics of the game.

Oh, i forgot, one monk coming over to the spirit will get pounded by a hammer. Thats one of the biggest counters of this build, it cant stand basic pressure because it needs so much energy reserved for spikes that it always has to be kiting away. If by somehow, you stopped kiting, its over, gg.

The monks have shadowsteps. Please tell me how exactly you plan to pound on someone you can't pin.

So if the spike won't work on the monk when he's got Balanced Stance up, don't spike him when he's got Balanced Stance up. I can think of plenty of ways to get him to pop it early, and once it's on cooldown he's toast. And no shit, interrupts will screw spikes. So will a timely Infuse. We're back to very basic counters again. And, again, NPA. Perhaps you should read it again. --71.208.141.117 08:01, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Wow! Shadowsteps! Thats only going to get you further away frm your team? Well, all I know is my guild has lost only once to this spike, and that was the first time, good monk and secondary healer = no spike, its as simple as that <_< Og lo 08:07, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Really? Well, golly gee. You should've just told me that little story right from the start. WELL it, boys. --71.208.141.117 08:12, 2 January 2008 (EST)

"pretty bad build... Faced this in TA a couple of times and the only time my guild lost was the first time because we had no idea what it was. Every time after that, we were able to easily infuse the spike and kill the team. Even if they were trying to spike our monk, balanced stance removes about half the damage, and so follow that with any weak heal and its gg.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Og lo (contribs) ." Please read more than 1 line of text before posting Og lo 08:17, 2 January 2008 (EST)

[1]. I've never seen you on here before, I don't know your IGN or guild, a couple of guys I know are good players have said it's great, and you're posting stupid stuff. Even if I didn't have an opinion of the build, I'd say your arguments are worthless and your vote should be removed. tbh. --71.208.141.117 08:24, 2 January 2008 (EST)

First of all, you only have my IGN, you dont have my guild? Ever heard of a pvp character? I just gave you one character's name. I have been active in TA recently, and I have seen this build a number of times, and each time we managed to overcome it, they may have gotten one or two successful spikes in, but other than that we have a near flawless record against this build. Maybe our build is just made to kill it? Maybe not? But I'm just saying every time I have come across this build, i have succesfully won the match. Except the first time I saw it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Og lo (talk • contribs) .

Now you've given me a character name. If you look around, not a whole lot of people's wiki names match their IGNs. And, my original point comes around again, it's a rock-paper-scissors situation when there are two infuses on the field. It's not insurmountable, but your team has a heavy advantage, and rating this build badly because of that is silly. Two infusers on one team is rare even in eight-man PvP. --71.208.141.117 08:38, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Please sign your comments with ~~~~ cKow^Dont 08:42, 2 January 2008 (EST)

I never said i had two infusers, i said we had Balanced stance, which is the most logic thing to take for TA, and we had heavy heals, WoH and Spirit Transfer 83.146.34.222 09:14, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Close enough. And if they can't fake out a Balanced Stance, they need more Vent imo. Also, still rock-paper-scissors situation, silly vote, etc, etc. --71.208.141.117 09:21, 2 January 2008 (EST)

First of all, balanced stance is not the ONLY counter, there is also spirit transfer on the rit, second of all, balanced stance lasts longer than 1 second, and its only when the monk sees the war shadow stepping to him that he activates balanced stance. Anyways, since I've seen this build appear, I have never once seen them attempt to fake a spike, and so, any organized team with a brain can in fact, utterly annihalate this build, anyways, i will refrain from posting here because most of these posts are idiotic or narrow minded. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Og lo (talk • contribs) .

PvXwiki:Sign_your_comments, GuildWiki:No_personal_attacks cKow^Dont 10:59, 2 January 2008 (EST)

I notice you assume the team running the build doesn't have a brain. Also, still rock-paper-scissors situation, silly vote, etc, etc. --71.208.141.117 11:04, 2 January 2008 (EST)

If you've never seen anyone using this try to fake a spike, then you've clearly never seen anyone that doesn't suck run it, so you can't accurately comment on the efficacy of the build, now can you? --Edru viransu//QQ about me/sysop 13:36, 2 January 2008 (EST)

lolol my ra team went into ta and beat this, caught all the spikes:P glimmer of light ftw —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.106.201.158 (contribs) .

You get this mixed up with the shit, weak, 500-600 damage build known as 'TA Smite Spike', whereas this is KNIGHTWAY. Knightway is nigh on impossible to out-prot, and TOTALLY DOWNRIGHT DAMN IMPOSSIBLE to outheal unless you run a 4 man team with uber heals. ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 15:17, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Only, you know, glimmer doesn't outheal the spike. –Ichigo724 15:07, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Supportive Spirit has finnaly found a use,huzzah! Gilkong 16:39, 2 January 2008 (EST)

No wai, "Brace Yourself!" counterspike iz better. cKow^Dont 18:23, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Supportive spirit wouldn't be enough to stop the spike, and brace yourself would be easy to bypass- change spike target. ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 18:42, 2 January 2008 (EST)

use the underused balthazars pendulum! :D ----InfestedHydralisk (Talk*Contributions) 18:57, 2 January 2008 (EST)

455+hp healing isn't enough to stop the spike? :/ –Ichigo724 19:08, 2 January 2008 (EST)

You forget that they would have to put up supportive in between the spike skills, meaning you'd only catch crushing blow and 6 of the smites, and that is still not a huge amount. ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 19:44, 2 January 2008 (EST)

You put all your faith in this, you have your mind fixed on it. You just can't admit that its too easy to counter? Really... Another 7 of these builds seen today, not a single loss, want to know why? Because its just so easy to counter! Og lo 19:56, 2 January 2008 (EST)

A. You play against tards. B. You bullshit. C. It's ROCK FUCKING PAPER FUCKING SCISSORS AGAIN. ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 19:57, 2 January 2008 (EST)

D. You don't get jokes. SUPPORTIVE. SPIRIT. LOL. Lighten up, would you?–Ichigo724 20:01, 2 January 2008 (EST)

INTERNET SRS BUSINESS ECT — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 20:04, 2 January 2008 (EST)

tbh, i don't think og lo is bullshitting. in the build he runs, (mo/w balanced and an off spirit transfer) i don't see how you get any kills. you spike the monk, either he doesn't get KD'd b/c of balanced, or he does, and the spike takes so long that its easy to pump out a spirit transfer and a mend body and soul/spirit light right after that. if you spike the rit (or n/rt idk) he just gets healed, same as if you spiked anyone else. I seriously see way to many counters for this to be effective, any team with an off-monk heal won't get spiked out. also doesn't seem very durable tbh, 2/3 of your elites are conditional (probably just divert actually) and you have like 3 healing skills, a rof and a sb. i don't see the imba-ness here, sorry.— Cheese Slaya (Talk) 20:17, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Cheese, it's a 950 damage spike. One goddamn heal won't save anything from that. ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 20:27, 2 January 2008 (EST)

950 damage spike over what, 3 seconds? anyone could easily pump out 2 heals in that time, and possibly 3, depending on the cast times.— Cheese Slaya (Talk) 20:28, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Efficiency?

This boasts a nearly assured spike, and win, given enough time. But as Skakid points out, it's not an efficient spike. My question is, should teams such as these be rated on this criteria? Shen(contribs) 20:13, 2 January 2008 (EST)

clunky and in-efficient imo. they should be rated by that criteria, if it applies, which it does here.— Cheese Slaya (Talk) 20:18, 2 January 2008 (EST)

We have greatly cut the clunkiness by allowing for 2 or 3 spikes in the normal timeframe of 1. ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 20:26, 2 January 2008 (EST)

The point with this build is that they kite untill spikes go through, someone makes a mistake. With the 3 monk backline they can survive damn long. - Unexist 05:44, 3 January 2008 (EST)

Shit's gettin' serious, gaiz. Balanced Stance + 2 power heals = rock-paper-scissors situation. It's possible to win (warrior shadowsteps to monk, monk pops BS, warrior beats on monk until BS expires, monk#3 pops the spirit, warrior and monks #1&2 pop the monk), but it takes approximately one metric assload of coordination to do it. How many teams run Balanced Stance and two power heals, anyway? Not a whole lot. Therefore, rock-paper-scissors. Also, we need a goddamn contraction for that phrase. --71.229@home

/agree. Also, r-p-s, duh. Lord Belar 20:44, 2 January 2008 (EST)

no u. ): --71.229@home

What I was hoping was that this would remain cemented in great for the fact that whenever I run it it is extremely difficult to counter my team- however as I have came to realise, most teams lack the co-ordination, leadership skills and general leetness I possess. Therefore this will not become meta, it will not get used by 1 in 10 teams or more, and therefore dual ESurge mesmers in TA will not become a meta. Sad days. ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 21:32, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Napalm, this is lameway, that's the reason it's not run. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 21:35, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Lameway is fun and gud. ~~ Napalm Flame >=] (talk)·(contributions) 21:51, 2 January 2008 (EST)

I lol'd at your "overall leetness" part.— Cheese Slaya (Talk) 00:28, 3 January 2008 (EST)

Change

Is anyone apposed if I changed the skill bar for the Warrior to <pvxbig> [build prof=W/A name="Shove Warrior" Tactics=12+1+1 HammerMastery=12+1 Shadow=3][Shove][Crushing Blow][Grapple][Disrupting Dagger][Shadow Walk][Optional][Dash][Resurrection Signet][/build] </pvxbig> while playing this in TA as the Warrior, I found that it's a lot simpler to just hit Dash than Retreat to an ally who is already most likely out of range. One time I even got stuck behind a spirit wall when we all Death Charged in. I found that Shadow Walk just makes it a lot easier and more effective overall. Also, as a side note, Grapple doesn't seem to have any real use here. The enemys tend to not be stupid enough in TA to stay back for that long for the spike to kill them at all. Also, by the time you get up from Grapple, you don't have enough time to hit Crushing Blow to help you your teamates. Any thoughts or oppositions to the above build change? — ク Eloc 貢 06:01, 3 January 2008 (EST)

I'd probably use shadow walk instead of death's retreat/charge too, honestly. In favor. Pluto 06:20, 3 January 2008 (EST)

Go go Lift Enchant! cKow^Dont 07:40, 3 January 2008 (EST)