Talk: A/E Perma Daggers Farmer

People keep asking me in game for this build and how to use it. I Usually do Chest Runs and farm beach, war fields and infernal worms and abysals with it. I also solo farm chaos fields in UW, but not many people know that and you have to be elite to use it in that style, meaning you have to have a full understanding of how the build works and the timings and the counters/ etc. It will take a few runs to learn safe spots on the runs for the chaos fields, but after you get it down, the money is endless. At a min of 3-5 ectos and a max of 7-11 ectos a run in about an hour-hour and a half, this build is above all others i believe. It just takes time and practice to learn it. Good luck guys! and with no furthur adu, and after a few months of messing around alone with it, Ive opened it to the public. Have fun and go wild! (original creator) Tartreg 00:05, 19 March 2008 (EDT) (Shadowdemon Ricerom)

I suggest you take Golden Fox Strike over Jagged Strike, it shouldn't really change much, but I prefer additional damage over bleeding. Also, you could bring dagger mastery down from 12 to 10, and put 8 into Critical Strike, to gain more energy on critical hits. -Mike 17:15, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

Sounds good, have you tested it? Tartreg 17:18, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

Not yet, I haven't really been into all the FoW/UW farming, but I can try it somewhere else. Plus, I'm not the greatest with timing Shadow Form. XD -Mike 17:22, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

Well you have my in game name, if you need lessons, i give them. Better if you have vent that i can talk you through it on! Tartreg 17:38, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

Who needs vent or lessons to perma sf? Its easy.70.243.73.185 18:50, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

It is Chaos Planes, not Chaos Fields. Also, how long does a clear of the Chaos Planes take? With my elementalist build, it takes just under 90 minutes. Scarn 20:27, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

It's actually Chaos PLAINS not planes...Bluerask 19:23, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

For Planes and Pits, it also takes about 60-90 minutes, depending on how fast you are or how good you get.Tartreg 00:26, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

So this can do FoW as well? Essence of Celerity is a must? Natsopaani 09:24, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

essence is not a must in Fow, only in UW. Tartreg 19:24, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

Why not replace Golden Fox Strike/Jagged Strike with Golden Phoenix Strike and add Shadow Refuge for healing? i think that the disadvantage of this build is that it has no healing in case dmg goes through Shadow Form.

This build is not meant to heal. It is a damage build. If any damage will go through SF, then you shouldn't farm it with this build or you should stay away from it. The reason for not switching is because you want the max damage asap with spammable skills. This build is constant attacks. If you always waste your attack on deep wound, then you actually lose damage. The bleeding make flesh enemies die faster the golden fox strike makes non fleshy creatures die faster. But its all about the spammability of the attacks. You can put in refuge for jagged and dash for wild if you want to practice and get the hang of it, but you will kill much slower. This build can clear the cave in 15 minutes or less in FoW when used correctly. Tartreg 19:24, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

sorry i meant Golden Fox Strike/Jagged Strike - Wild Strike

Wow, I thought I was going to be the one to patent this build. I personally use the base of the PermaShadow build, the energy-regaining dagger attacks, Death Blossom, and then leave two optional slots. Consider skills like Heart of Shadow, Way of the Fox, and Shadow Refuge. This is also a PERFECT build to take on the Bison Tournament with...especially M. Bison himself. 152.3.178.76 23:23, 26 March 2008 (EDT) Chiyonosake

Do you run to the Chaos Plains just by permaSFing your way there? - Knux 02:29, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

For the most part yes, but the main problem is the nature renewal spirits in the mountains. They double your cast time, making it impossible to keep SF up more than twice. There are two safe spots, one with renewal still on and one without. Before I get to those though, your other problem is the charged blacknesses. They are air spike elementals, and if they get too close, they will knock you down with a touch and in the end you will die. The good thing about them is that they are slow, so with essence of celerity you should have no problem dodging them. Now, the safe spots are at the very top of the first hill, right before your aggro circle hits the charged blacknesses, and the second is at the bottom of that next valley where you dont have renewal on you. I will post screenshots of a typical run soon. Tartreg 17:20, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

I used to use it and it works, just kill the spirits around you, then cast the enchants. Extreme(contribs) 22:36, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

If you hurry fast enough through the mountains, you can beat the Charged Blacknesses to their station infront of the Chaos Planes.Scarn 21:49, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

Ive used it (i used critical agility Golden Phoenix strike instead of the 2 first lead attacks) and it works good. Edit: forgot to sign Dumazz 16:23, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

Screens

For the following pics, I died so I could coach a friend on how to do it over vent while I took screens for the site. My char is there as you can see.

I lowered the size of the pics because they were far too big. Hope you don't mind. Klumpeet 11:29, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

Thanks a bunch wasnt sure on how to do that! Tartreg 05:59, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

dash and energy

i rly like the build though i have been trying a version that uses golden phoenix strike and dash instead of golden fox and wild strike, i havent gotten far enough into uw to rly test this but i think u should be able to use it like that without an essence of celerity. besides that it also makes the energy a bit easyer as i find myself with too litle energy to do my sf chain quite often with the version of this page. Thempest 12:56, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

Jebus those pics took up a ton of space, maybe make them smaller or start another page and add a link those pictures are way to big though. Extreme(contribs) 12:29, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

the run to the planes

could u tell me about how high ur succeed chance is for the run there, cous i have been trying this for a while now and i keep running in to behemoth spawns completely blocking the way and then getting killed by their traps as im stuck in their body block wall. Thempest 10:39, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

sometimes that happens. I cant say you will succeed every time. I personally have been testing a build that is slower but doesnt require an essence. It has Dash and shadow of refuge. that at least negates the degen of the traps should you have to run into them. It is slower on the kills because the only attack skills are the golden lotus and the lotus strike and death blossom. But so far it has done pretty well. good for UW and to learn to use the build. The version on the actual page is good for fow and other things. Tartreg 02:37, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

I applaud your effort for making an SF build with daggers

I applaud you effort for making an SF build with daggers.nice job.Jtfire55 17:55, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

Video?

Is it possible for you to make a video of this? A Little guide for us (or just me) who fails to run there. :P Natsopaani 00:58, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

Id personally love a video of just the build because i cant seem to time it ryt:( max iv been able to keep it up for is 1-2mins after that for some reason the echoed 1 seems to last longer than the 20 seconds its meant to so it mucks it up

Idea!

Kk, I got the idea. I'm lf a Sin that can use the build, but wich wanna train to run to chaos planes etc. I would make a guide about and, and perhaps a vid if liked x) Let me know anything on my Talk page! Greets R0x0rDead 04:25, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

I've been using a little different build in FoW atm with Dash and Golden Phoenix Strike instead of Golden Fox Strike and Wild Strike. Natsopaani 13:56, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

I also typically use Golden Phoenix Strike - the open slot for a utility skill is better. However, if you're going to stick with Golden Fox Strike, I'd use Golden Fang Strike instead of Wild Strike. 71.98.84.249 14:04, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Rename the build!

Why is it called the Chaos Fields Farmer if there is no usage on how to? Why no just rename it as the Perma Shadow Dagger Farmer? That would be a lot more neccesary than the current one. TedTheFarmer 16:30, 6 April 2008 (EDT)

A video would really be nice :D Natsopaani 09:45, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

Is EotN skill really necsessary?

Hi i would like to know if the EotN skill Lotus Strike really neccesary is because I do not have EotN if their is can u pls post one in the variant box or here .Thx! :D RangerManger555 13:04, 10 April 2008 (EDT)

Well, if you invest 13 into Critical Strikes, you could try Critical Eye or Critical Strike. I don't think there's much else that would work for energy management, though. -Mike 16:58, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

For this style build, yes, EoTN is required. Because this is meant to just attack and still have energy. If you do do the critical strikes, then you are making an entire different build. Tartreg 18:34, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

Destroyer Farming

Since they nerfed destroyer degen farming would this build be able to solo it? I know it would be slow but its better than not farming them at all. Death blossom would own their mobs xD.Bluerask 19:29, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

I have gone into the passage to the EOTN with this build and soloed the entire first group of destroyers with this build. And had a good amount of time left. No drops, but it is possible to solo destroyers with this build. Just make sure they dont have a counter before you go to farm them. Tartreg 06:02, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

Please a video

i cant seem to even find where the hell do i go T_T a video will make things MUCH easier Adamezra 22:14, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

Done ^^ R0x0rDead 13:40, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

Birthday Cupcake

Can we use Birthday Cupcakes instead of essence of celerity's? Dumazz 11:15, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

as long as the cakes give speed boost, then yes.Tartreg 06:04, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

I can't seem to get past the first 3 trapping obsidian behemoths, the traps always kill me. Am I just going the wrong way? Natsopaani 09:12, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

your going the right way, you just have to stay to the far side on the opposite side of them. if they are covering the entryway, then you cant get past them.Tartreg 02:19, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

Cleanup

I cleaned it up some and removed the tag. great build.--Reason.decrystallized 07:59, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

thx a bunch. i aprreciate it!Tartreg 02:20, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

DO I HEAR BUFF?!!!

Shadow Form can last 38 seconds now, so I'm not sure whether that means you can use Glyph of Renewal+Deadly Paradox or just Arcane Echo, and the latter is best due to less disable on your attack skills. =P -Mike 21:38, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

you still have to use deadly paradox, and either arcane echo or glyph of swiftness. BUT you can do it at only 12 shadow mastery--or, if you're like me, 14 for a little more safety. leaving us with this bar, which i have confirmed to work:

<pvxbig> [build prof=A/E name=Shadow Management dag=11+3 sha=10+1+3 crit=10+3][Glyph of Swiftness][Deadly Paradox@0][Shadow Form][Golden fox strike][Wild Strike][Death Blossom][Critical Eye][Critical Agility][/build] </pvxbig>

it iz roxxorz.--Reason.decrystallized 22:40, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

Vote for that one^^--RELYK (Talk | Edits) 03:21, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

20+38=58 DAMNIT! I think Shadow Form would last for 58 seconds with Arcane Echo, then it would go out for 3-5 seconds. That would have been so nice if your attack skills didn't get disabled... >.> -Mike 07:15, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

you can do it with arcane echo and essence of celerity. or with glyph of swiftness and essence of celerity. but you either have to use a consumable or else deadly paradox. could also work with quickening zephyr and no other skills, which might lead to an interesting team build ...--Reason.decrystallized 11:38, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

we should definitely change to that build. here is why:


(sorry forgot to sign. note my jaunty bow.)--Reason.decrystallized 19:00, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

Yes please, and it looks so much easier to time, since you have liekz 5 or 6 seconds to reapply Shadow Form. Plus, your energy will be gud with Critical Eye+Critical Agility. So easy that I could even do it. =P -Mike 22:36, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

yeah, both the energy and the timing are far easier to manage ... the old version required 40 energy all at once--this way, you pre-cast glyph, regen through auto attacking, and then spend 25 energy at once. much, much easier, especially when fighting grasps and their %$*#-ing "Fear me!" spam. also, the timing on the old one was about 1.5 seconds to spare on the whole cycle--with these attributes, you have about 4-5 seconds of grace-time. also, you can use a 15^50 or "when enchanted" weapon rather than the +5 energy. even the damage is higher, really, because you can spam more without worrying about energy (due to increased crit strikes, IAS + critical eye and decreased energy cost to maintain shadow form) and your dagger attribute is higher. i'll probably update it tomorrow if no one objects.--Reason.decrystallized 23:00, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

Isn't +15% mods on daggers like... only 3-4 more damage? 201.174.210.211 20:48, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, but what else are you going to use there? --71.208.123.22 20:50, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

I've been using +20% while under 50% actually. You use SF once before you go in and let it expire naturally then you agro and perma-maintain it, you end up below 50% for the entire time if you do it right.--Goldenstar 20:53, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

glyph of swiftness > echo

amirite? Antiarchangel TROLL 00:29, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

yes (in my opinion), you use less energy, and gives more cast time for SF. --Trev 17:28, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

Only chaos fields?

Shouldn't the name be changed because it can farm practically anything, not just the chaos fields? ¬ Klumpeet 15:52{GMT}24-05-MMVIII

Practically Everything Farmer. >.>

How about SF Dagger Farmer? -Mike 11:57, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

Sounds good. ¬ Klumpeet 15:58{GMT}24-05-MMVIII

/agree.--Reason.decrystallized 12:16, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

then make a section on the main page of proven farm locations ... chaos fields, bone pits, TotPK, certain mobs in ravenheart gloom (nm only) ... i mean, keep the current note about: will farm anything that doesn't break sf or outheal you, but then have a section of known/suggested, etc.--Reason.decrystallized 12:19, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

Okay, all done.--Reason.decrystallized 13:00, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

:]

How much build will be maked with that perma ?? xD

There's probably more than 6 other perma-Shadow Form builds here, already. lol -Mike 15:26, 24 May 2008 (EDT)

Chaos Plains and Bone Pits

I don't have much experience with UW, and was wondering if someone could post a guide of the run for it. Plz/thx. Kamer (Talk|Contributions) 16:25, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

A little issue...

On the main screen it says to practice this build without the zelous daggers equiped...

But without them, I cannot get shadow form to reload quick enough, causing a whole lot of confusion.

Perhaps we should make it clearer.

Do you have an Enchanting Mod on your Daggers? -Mike 18:47, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

it only works with an enchanting mod. the note about practicing was actually left over from the old build, when you wouldn't regenerate enough energy to do it if you had a zealous weapon up. so--you have to use a weapon with an enchanting mod at all times. but if you're practicing, don't use a zealous weapon because your energy will be tight. although any more it really doesn't matter.--Reason.decrystallized 19:00, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

Haha I practiced weaponless. I am slow that way. xD I understood before I commented here, but I just wanted to put up a warning for slow people like me.

Too lazy

to make this build before some1 else--RELYK (Talk | Edits) 22:39, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

team

okay, if you take a second guy with QZ, it opens up some interesting possibilities: <pvxbig> [build prof=A/any name=Shadow Management dag=10+3 sha=11+1+3 crit=10+3][Shadow Form][Golden fox strike][Wild Strike][Death Blossom][Critical Strike][Way of Perfection][Critical Eye][Critical Agility][/build] </pvxbig> and your little hero helper can throw a bond on you--succor or life bond or some such--and still have the energy to maintain QZ. the damage is ungodly (you use the chain every two seconds, with no downtime due to DP), there are no energy problems (for one thing you don't have the massive energy sink which is DP, for another critical strike recharges in three seconds). now, i admit to not having all the kinks worked out of it yet, but initial results are promising:

--Reason.decrystallized 06:58, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

/age pls --71.229.204.25 07:00, 26 May 2008 (EDT)